PhilH Posted 19May, 2016 Report Share Posted 19May, 2016 I think you need a 914 Stew. turboT and Stew F 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 19May, 2016 Report Share Posted 19May, 2016 What I'm curious of is why this red c2 gets 'Hotrod dispensation' while many of the other well built 'rods' are automatically marked down and suggested to be worth 20-30-40% less? Saying nothing about this car ( except perhaps only driven to the track on a dry Sunday ...), just an observation of the last month or so of bear baiting I wouldn't say that the 964 is a 'hot rod' and I think that's the point. Aside from suspension, seats and cage it's still a relatively stock (and easily reversible) car. Not the typical backdate/fibreglass/drilled door handle candidate, just purposefully upgraded. That's my take on it anyway. BlitzKonig and MFX 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Posted 19May, 2016 Report Share Posted 19May, 2016 As an RS owner (well, ex as of last week), I can tell you that almost all RS recreations are nothing more than BS. I have only ever seen one that comes anywhere close - in fact, you could not tell it apart from a "real" one. It had been stripped to bare shell, seam welded correctly and had the extra little bits added to the chassis. You need to use the lightweight panels and alloy bonnet. Then it was rebuilt with 100% original components, down to buying a set of wheels, seats and lightweight glass. The gearbox and diff needed rebuilding to get the right spec (ratios). You need to fit the right brakes, including the RS ABS. I could go on, but I think you get the pictureEvery other "recreation" takes some parts of what it takes to be an RS and approximates it. Without all the RS stuff, it will never feel like an RS. What makes an RS special isn't that it is total perfection, but that it feels the way it does straight out of the factory. In fact, until we all started worrying about originality some years ago, many RS owners upgraded their cars to make them better. If they were mainly road cars, they fitted a more road focused suspension. If they were track cars, the suspension and brakes were uprated. Many added more power as well. I know of people who spent serious money making their RS's "better", money that now seems very badly spent!Elitist crap. Who says that if you want an RS looking 964 you have to faithfully replicate the original. That would cost a bomb and look the same. Who cares about 10hp and a few kgs. PS I saw a 996 Carrera today with a GT3 body kit, fancy another rant......? Mike D'Silva, BlitzKonig, 81SC and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel Posted 19May, 2016 Report Share Posted 19May, 2016 (edited) Hugh maybe I should have said trakho... Still been flogged on the track albeit maintained to do so . The term rod is used pretty liberally here and abroad. I'd suggest a lot of the g series and later cars wearing big spoilers and other trik treat outfits aren't that hard to reverse .Besides just love em for what they are. Bit of frankNfurter and come on hands up who didn't dance the time warp... Edited 19May, 2016 by michel Fraz and hugh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 19May, 2016 Report Share Posted 19May, 2016 ^^ I don't disagree, nor do I tend to discount 'rods' as they are generally more interesting to me. I like cars with personality tk111 and Fraz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilH Posted 19May, 2016 Report Share Posted 19May, 2016 Elitist crap. Who says that if you want an RS looking 964 you have to faithfully replicate the original. That would cost a bomb and look the same. Who cares about 10hp and a few kgs. PS I saw a 996 Carrera today with a GT3 body kit, fancy another rant......?I like a 996 with a GT3 body kit. As long as it does not have a GT3 badge on it! The factory makes what the customer wants and a lot of buyers wanted "the look" in a car that was easy for the every day commute...hence so many Tips.....and I think that is what made and continues to make the company money, to allow them to build the more race / track focussed cars for those who want them....and can afford them. LeeM and Tips 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboT Posted 19May, 2016 Report Share Posted 19May, 2016 Hugh maybe I should have said trakho... Still been flogged on the track albeit maintained to do so . The term rod is used pretty liberally here and abroad. I'd suggest a lot of the g series and later cars wearing big spoilers and other trik treat outfits aren't that hard to reverse .Besides just love em for what they are. Bit of frankNfurter and come on hands up who didn't dance the time warp... one word'..'tangent' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew F Posted 19May, 2016 Report Share Posted 19May, 2016 I think you need a 914 Stew.I'd like a 914. But I don't have the space. It does look like a beaut little car though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew F Posted 19May, 2016 Report Share Posted 19May, 2016 'Funks ' rims? Not heard of them before Saw it at Buiks recently. Looks goodyearsSo many people have trouble with the spelling (ask me how I know. been putting up with it for 50 years). It's not that fuching difficult. It's funny when you spell it out and the person writing it down adds random letters because they think they are about to write a swear word. Or they do actually write the f word. GUT and LeeM 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 19May, 2016 Report Share Posted 19May, 2016 Its very nice mate. Had a good look at it at Buik's I had posted it here somewhere too ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevMcRev Posted 19May, 2016 Report Share Posted 19May, 2016 (edited) For me that red 964 C2 "RS" is a way better proposition than a real RS.I'd be happy if i'd bought one 3-5 years ago for maybe $60k-$120k, but I sure wouldn't buy one today for maybe $300-500k... Anyone who does is doing it for investment or ego...or both. I doubt it's because they want a quick car to drive the pants off it.In fact I would get way more pleasure driving the ring off this thing, getting it dirty, getting stone chips, maybe even drive it to the shops, than I would a real RS, all while giving zero fuchs because it's not worth the price of a house. Probably goes better too!I really don't read the ad as though he is trying to sell me a replica RS, more so pointing out that it is a C2 that has some RS aesthetics added that aren't original to the car. As for it's value in the marketplace, I think it should sit somewhere between modified and perfect original car. Motorsport prep rarely adds realisable value to a car, but nothing wrong with pointing out the money it's had spent on it - just don't expect a return on it. It's be a great drivers car at around $110,000 imo...Seriously thinking of building my 996.2 C2 into a 996 GT3RS replica .... Will it be a bit slower, heavier and not rev as hard as a real RS? Yep. 0.5 of a second slower to 100 - but still 0.3 faster than a 964 RS! Is it still plenty fast enough to put you on your pushbike for 12 months? Yes! Or I could spend an extra $300 odd thousand to have the real thing... Edited 19May, 2016 by TrevMcRev clutch-monkey, DJM, Fraz and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 19May, 2016 Report Share Posted 19May, 2016 Is it still plenty fast enough to put you on your pushbike for 12 months? Yes! TrevMcRev 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Kay Posted 19May, 2016 Report Share Posted 19May, 2016 I'm sure this one has been discussed, but I cannot find the page number....I recall a 930 that was for sale in WA some time back. If I recall correctly, it was known to the Melbourne fraternity and was said it was well looked after. Apologies, the details are sketchy and I cannot find the page number!What I was wondering is whether this is the same car and if the wider PFA community know anything specific or could direct me to someone that does? If I proceed, I will insist on a PPI and make my own mind up, but I would be grateful for any detailshttp://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Porsche-930-1980/OAG-AD-12785231/?Cr=3Thank you in advancePeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonN Posted 19May, 2016 Report Share Posted 19May, 2016 (edited) I'm guessing you sold your RS for a significant amount more (maybe even triple?) than what this car is currently listed at? No doubt the RS is an amazing car, but is it twice or three times as good? I find it odd for someone who has just profited from the 964 boom to be so critical about the value of a car such as this - I thought this would be at least something you could appreciate as it is no doubt riding the wave of your recent sale (and others). Not all of us can afford a genuine RS and I'm guessing at a third of the price most of us probably would find little difference in the overall package of the car - relative to current RS values I'd say this car seems like a bargain. I would also be very curious to see the difference in lap times between this and a real RS. I'd bet if its only marginally faster and at the end of the day that's really what it all comes down too............100k doesn't buy much of a 911 these days (at least AC) and whilst modified to someone who's after a driver this looks like a fun car for the $$$. Please someone buy this car, and drive it like Ferry intended. HughI guess I didn't make my point very well, because what you are saying is so far off base its embarrassing for me. So sorry for that.What i am objecting to is not a modified, fast 964. It is about linking a car to the RS in order to sell it, when the car in question in no way an RS recreation. If it were, i would have no issue at all. All it seems to have in common with an RS is that it looks as if the ride height has been set at about the same level and it has RS door cards. I am very confident that the driving experience will be noticeably different from an RS. Please note I said "different" and not better. Therefore I personally see it as dishonest to associate the car with RS. It doesn't even look like one, having the wrong bumpers, glass and interior.I personally find the whole ad a problem. Besides the RS comment, I find it hard to believe that mileage claim. If the car really has done 11k kms since new, it would have been worth a lot of money if kept original. It seems most likely that the car has done 11k since it was modified.For what it's worth, I agree with you that compared with an RS, it is fantastic value. However, that is the wrong car to compare it to. You need to judge the value against other 964 C2's. I would suggest that a car with a full cage and so track focused should sell at a discount to good 964's, because I am constantly being told that the types of modifications seen on this car detract from its desirability. As for what it would be like to drive compared with the RS, it's hard to say, but I am sure it would be very different.Lap times are probably the most meaningless thing to compare - I have raced some very quick cars that I have hated to drive. And there is a reason why Walter Rohl still says the 964RS is his favorite Porsche ever and it is the only one he has ever bought with his own money. The appeal is hard to understand unless you drive one. When i bought the car, they were extremely unloved (and therefore cheap!), but a few of us chose them because they were the best trackday car available. You really couldn't find another car that the differences between the standard road car and the race equivalent were so small. It remains the Porsche that is closest to its race car equivalent. If you removed the carpet and put in a full cage you could be competitive in the race cars based on it. No Porsche before or since has that - Even taking a modern GT6 RS, there is a world of difference between that and the race cars. The reason for the real climb in 964RS values was that people woke up to that and they climbed, and that is what finally attracted them to investors.So please don't misunderstand what I am saying. I am nt attacking the car as such, but the claims being made about it. If it was being advertised as a full caged, road legal 964 that had been developed for the track, no problem. My question about value against other 964's is actually important to me as I consider my next car. I know it won't feel like an RS, but I hope it will be as engaging. What I do know is that it will be a lot cheaper, so I won't have to worry about writing off a significant chunk of my net worth with a small mistake on the track! Edited 19May, 2016 by Simon Nelson hugh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond911 Posted 20May, 2016 Report Share Posted 20May, 2016 I'm sure this one has been discussed, but I cannot find the page number....I recall a 930 that was for sale in WA some time back. If I recall correctly, it was known to the Melbourne fraternity and was said it was well looked after. Apologies, the details are sketchy and I cannot find the page number!What I was wondering is whether this is the same car and if the wider PFA community know anything specific or could direct me to someone that does? If I proceed, I will insist on a PPI and make my own mind up, but I would be grateful for any detailshttp://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Porsche-930-1980/OAG-AD-12785231/?Cr=3Thank you in advancePeterPeter, I don't know the car but here is a link to some of the discussion further back in this thread:http://porscheforum.com.au/topic/3157-whats-for-sale-in-australia-and-interesting-thread/?page=662#comment-161734 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonN Posted 20May, 2016 Report Share Posted 20May, 2016 I typed the above post last night but lost internet connection, so hadn't read some of the other replies when I posted it. In reading my comments below, please remember my objection is to the use of the term "RS recreation"and not to the car itself.I have a simple question. What is the minimum work needed to be done on a car before it is honest to call a car a "recreation"? With the outside, is lowering it to the same ride height and adding an engine cover badge really enough to call is a recreation? Don't you have to get the right panels on it? What do you need to do inside the car? Finally, what do you have to do mechanically?Secondly, I will ask again a question I have raised and so has Michel. What level of modification starts to hit the value of a car. As a current buyer and then potential modifier of the car I buy, this is an important question. I have been told by everybody that welded in cages drop the value big time, non original interiors hit the value and mods add zero value to a car. the only time modified cars seem to be worth something more than the original cars is if they end up being something different and stunning and I note that the backdated cars don't get the value expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgy Posted 20May, 2016 Report Share Posted 20May, 2016 I'm sure this one has been discussed, but I cannot find the page number....I recall a 930 that was for sale in WA some time back. If I recall correctly, it was known to the Melbourne fraternity and was said it was well looked after. Apologies, the details are sketchy and I cannot find the page number!What I was wondering is whether this is the same car and if the wider PFA community know anything specific or could direct me to someone that does? If I proceed, I will insist on a PPI and make my own mind up, but I would be grateful for any detailshttp://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Porsche-930-1980/OAG-AD-12785231/?Cr=3Thank you in advancePeterI think this is ex Vas car? hugh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 20May, 2016 Report Share Posted 20May, 2016 Half the people who post here are trying to make their cars a bit like the better versions, at least cosmetically. It's the nature of sports car enthusiasts.Anyone with any true interest will seek out the knowledge that enables them to make a decision on whether to spend a large amount of discretionary cash on a large toy , which may or may not be used competitively.If we are debating twisted or potentially miselading marketing schtick here , well all the usual commercial operators are up there with the DIY used car dealers in the burbs in this regard.Even the new dealers are full of BS a lot of the time! Because they know nothing empties the wallet faster than ego & vanity! Hughesy, michel, Fraz and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Kay Posted 20May, 2016 Report Share Posted 20May, 2016 I think this is ex Vas car? Does that mean 'Vas' is a forum member here?Forgive the ignorance but, 3.4l means different piston and barrels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgy Posted 20May, 2016 Report Share Posted 20May, 2016 Does that mean 'Vas' is a forum member here?Forgive the ignorance but, 3.4l means different piston and barrels?http://porscheforum.com.au/profile/1085-vas/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboT Posted 20May, 2016 Report Share Posted 20May, 2016 Does that mean 'Vas' is a forum member here?Forgive the ignorance but, 3.4l means different piston and barrels?pretty sure this is now owned by claywong who is also in PFA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Kay Posted 20May, 2016 Report Share Posted 20May, 2016 pretty sure this is now owned by claywong who is also in PFADoesn't he own everything on here?! You Snooze, you looze..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgy Posted 20May, 2016 Report Share Posted 20May, 2016 Doesn't he own everything on here?! You Snooze, you looze.....If you are after a 930, have you looked at the black 76 that @James P is selling? Looks pretty nice to me for the $$, also a LHD-RHD car with some mods. James P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboT Posted 20May, 2016 Report Share Posted 20May, 2016 Doesn't he own everything on here?! You Snooze, you looze.....sold for around $100k not that long ago. Does look good though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Kay Posted 20May, 2016 Report Share Posted 20May, 2016 Really appreciate your feedback @edgy I have considered both and the fact of original motor along with a brake booster (yep - small kahoonas) swayed me to the silver one Cheers PK Claywong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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