TrevMcRev Posted 11April, 2016 Report Share Posted 11April, 2016 I'm likely heading your way in a week, with time will see if feasible to drop by.Btw I was talking cages with a fabricator a few weeks back and there is a curious loophole that allows a full caged car to get (relatively) easy rego If the cage is incorporated through the interior trim/upholstery. Likely different in Vic but I have a non-Pcar with full tower to tower weld in cromoly cage and full road rego. It does go through the dash and firewall but I think it has more to do with who you know than how it's done. MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted 11April, 2016 Report Share Posted 11April, 2016 Isn't there a safety issue with using a full roll cage without a helmet and harness? ie head hitting cage... MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted 11April, 2016 Report Share Posted 11April, 2016 a cut up pool noodle will save you! MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 11April, 2016 Author Report Share Posted 11April, 2016 I don't know anything for certain, about what is legal and what is not. I am just going off of what I have heard for years (could all be rumor) that you can't have a full cage in a road registered car. For the reasons that Rob^ mentioned. That said once a car is registered, it is easy to get rego renewal, as long as you don't get defected, and even then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 11April, 2016 Report Share Posted 11April, 2016 Same in SA I believe. Theyre frowned upon, yet you can have full harness belts. You can only fit them if you have a roll hoop and harness bar, so who knows?I know it's standard fitment, yet GT3's have them, and I've seen loads of WRX's etc with a half cage fitted, so I'd be looking into its legality MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomo Posted 11April, 2016 Report Share Posted 11April, 2016 (edited) South Aussi Rules:Roll cagesDue to the increased risk of occupant injury in vehicle accidents, fitting full roll cages is not permitted. However, fitting a half roll cage rearward of the driver may be acceptable providing that:no part of the roll cage can be contacted by vehicle occupants when positioned in their normal seating positionthe roll cage is at least 150 millimetres behind the front seat occupants when the front seats are located in the most rearward adjusted positionall rear seats and seat belt assemblies fitted in the rear compartment are removedthe operation and effectiveness of the front seat belt assemblies is not affected in any way by the roll cageno person travels in the rear of the vehicle at any timethe vehicle has a seating inspection carried out by the Department of Planning, Transport and Infrastructure.Good luck it sounds like a mine field Edited 11April, 2016 by tomo Rob and LeeM 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvs11 Posted 11April, 2016 Report Share Posted 11April, 2016 South Aussi Rules:Roll cagesDue to the increased risk of occupant injury in vehicle accidents, fitting full roll cages is not permitted. However, fitting a half roll cage rearward of the driver may be acceptable providing that:no part of the roll cage can be contacted by vehicle occupants when positioned in their normal seating positionthe roll cage is at least 150 millimetres behind the front seat occupants when the front seats are located in the most rearward adjusted positionall rear seats and seat belt assemblies fitted in the rear compartment are removedthe operation and effectiveness of the front seat belt assemblies is not affected in any way by the roll cageno person travels in the rear of the vehicle at any timethe vehicle has a seating inspection carried out by the Department of Planning, Transport and Infrastructure.Good luck it sounds like a mine fieldThose spec's are pretty clear. How does this compare to the CAMS reg's? CAMS have to approve the cage for competition use, separately to road use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomo Posted 12April, 2016 Report Share Posted 12April, 2016 Those spec's are pretty clear. How does this compare to the CAMS reg's? CAMS have to approve the cage for competition use, separately to road use. Here is a link for Rally/ Road, A fair bit of stuff to soak into the gray matter:http://www.cams.com.au/motor-sport/regulations/cams-manual/rally-road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81SC Posted 12April, 2016 Report Share Posted 12April, 2016 I don't know anything for certain, about what is legal and what is not. I am just going off of what I have heard for years (could all be rumor) that you can't have a full cage in a road registered car. For the reasons that Rob^ mentioned. That said once a car is registered, it is easy to get rego renewal, as long as you don't get defected, and even then...Jeff, these are the guide lines I used a few years ago for a car registered in NSW. This document details and responds to questions asked by participants in the Motoring Enthusiast’s Conference at Eastern Creek 26 February 2012. 33. Why can’t roll cages be used in vehicles as long as they are designed and constructed properly? Yes, roll cages can be used in vehicles. The relevant standard is the requirement in clause 21 of Schedule 2 of the Regulation that everything in a vehicle’s construction and operation must not pose a danger to any person. NSW is of the view that four-point roll cages can still meet this requirement. Six point roll cages cannot, however, because the configuration of a six-point roll cage creates a rigid item directly in the head-strike area and obstructs the driver’s vision through the windscreen and adjacent side windows. A six point roll cage may nevertheless be installed in a vehicle if the front part is removed when the vehicle is used on a road or road-related area. Guidance on the fitting of roll cages can be found in Section LK to VSB 14, National Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Construction and Modification. Link to Section LK to VSB 14https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP7_Section_LK_Seating_and_Occupant_Protection_1Jan2011_v2.pdf MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvs11 Posted 12April, 2016 Report Share Posted 12April, 2016 " Six point roll cages cannot, however, because the configuration of a six-point roll cage creates a rigid item directly in the head-strike area and obstructs the driver’s vision through the windscreen and adjacent side windows"This shouldn't be a problem if you have proper race seats, harnesses and a Hans collar. Your head won't get anywhere close to the A pillar. With normal 3 point belts, which are fitted in road cars, it's frightening how far an occupant can be thrown in an impact before the slack is taken up. MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 12April, 2016 Report Share Posted 12April, 2016 South Aussi Rules:Roll cagesDue to the increased risk of occupant injury in vehicle accidents, fitting full roll cages is not permitted. However, fitting a half roll cage rearward of the driver may be acceptable providing that:no part of the roll cage can be contacted by vehicle occupants when positioned in their normal seating positionthe roll cage is at least 150 millimetres behind the front seat occupants when the front seats are located in the most rearward adjusted positionall rear seats and seat belt assemblies fitted in the rear compartment are removedthe operation and effectiveness of the front seat belt assemblies is not affected in any way by the roll cageno person travels in the rear of the vehicle at any timethe vehicle has a seating inspection carried out by the Department of Planning, Transport and Infrastructure.Good luck it sounds like a mine field So I'll be fitting a half cage then! tomo and MFX 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevMcRev Posted 12April, 2016 Report Share Posted 12April, 2016 The conundrum with cages is it is impossible to meet both the road authorities regs and the cams regs at the same time - they are contradictory.A rally car needs to both meet Cams schedule J to be used in competition but also be legal to drive on public roads for transport stages...Obviously a full cage that is designed to be used in motorsport will be used with harness, seats, helmets etc, yet are helmets are also taken off during transport stages...I would suggest before anyone builds a cage, you need to know exactly what category you intend to compete in and build to exactly that requirement, then worry about the the road stuff.If you just want a cage coz it'd be cool in a hotrod way, then build what the road regs allow, and accept it won't be allowed in some categories of motorsport. hugh and MFX 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
symsy Posted 13April, 2016 Report Share Posted 13April, 2016 Talk to the guys at Bond cages .. He has some good insights ..good guy. he told e that he has or is involved in some possible regs changes and had given input to RTMS.. I spoke to them about a bolt in cage in my Esky …. I havent done anything and its still in as is and registered.. but I sense this is a moving target that may be getting to something resolvable and as this guy is advisor ..sorry cant recall his name ..might be worth a call MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 14April, 2016 Author Report Share Posted 14April, 2016 Either way - good luck and thanks for the videos. Be great to know what camera you are using as well.I am just using a GoPro Hero4 for everything. When the car gets on the road I may look at getting one or 2 more cameras, and to be honest they probably won't be gopros. I find it is a bit finicky. It often has card errors, and it keeps giving me issues downloading from the card when it is in the camera so I now find it easier to use a card reader. They are also really expensive compared to the plethora of other things out there that do pretty much the same thing... South Aussi Rules:Roll cagesthe roll cage is at least 150 millimetres behind the front seat occupants when the front seats are located in the most rearward adjusted positionThis is just plain stupid! If you move the seat all the way rearward and recline it right back, then no cage in any car would comply?! The conundrum with cages is it is impossible to meet both the road authorities regs and the cams regs at the same time - they are contradictory.A rally car needs to both meet Cams schedule J to be used in competition but also be legal to drive on public roads for transport stages...Obviously a full cage that is designed to be used in motorsport will be used with harness, seats, helmets etc, yet are helmets are also taken off during transport stages...I would suggest before anyone builds a cage, you need to know exactly what category you intend to compete in and build to exactly that requirement, then worry about the the road stuff.If you just want a cage coz it'd be cool in a hotrod way, then build what the road regs allow, and accept it won't be allowed in some categories of motorsport.This is what I have been having trouble with. For Targa events, you must have a full roll cage AND the car must be road registered?! So basically what that means to me is that you have to have a dedicated car with rally registration. Also from what I have surmised, basically any race category that CAMS requires a cage, they require a full cage. So half cages don't comply with anything? What I question, is do GT3 factory cages comply for Targa etc? Because, from what I can see the attachment of the front bars and the size of the tubing etc, doesn't seem to line up with the roll cage specs they ask for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomo Posted 14April, 2016 Report Share Posted 14April, 2016 yes sounds weird,they must be referring to fixed type raceing seat with only forward and back adjustment like this setup. MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvs11 Posted 14April, 2016 Report Share Posted 14April, 2016 The cross bar can be used for hanging your harnesses, it would need to be a short distance behind the seats for the belts to align properly within the 10deg down zone and the buckles to be behind the seat back. CAMS harness regs. I don't get how you reconcile the full/half cage conundrum though. MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
09ELF Posted 21April, 2016 Report Share Posted 21April, 2016 (edited) I have a half cage and solid bucket seats.All engineered in NSW. This will also mean you need to have the car engineered as a 2 seater with all the rear belts etc removed.From my discussion with the engineer, only half cages are allowed. Edited 21April, 2016 by VroomVroomBlackSheep MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch-monkey Posted 21April, 2016 Report Share Posted 21April, 2016 yeah bolt in/weld in half cage in the rear, and removable front half cage is the only way now.in saying that, i currently have a 911 engineered for road use with approved full six point cage. but don't think there is much chance of doing it again. MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 21April, 2016 Author Report Share Posted 21April, 2016 I am happy to get the car engineered as a 2 seater. I got the main hoop done today, and all welded up, so now I just have the rear bars and the feet to do. Hopefully I can get that all tied up on Saturday. symsy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
09ELF Posted 22April, 2016 Report Share Posted 22April, 2016 looking forward to the more videos =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 22April, 2016 Author Report Share Posted 22April, 2016 looking forward to the more videos =)As long as everything goes smoothly, tomorrow night I can start editing. Actually the editing only takes around an hour or so for me now, the uploading to youtube takes around 5 hours or so.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 25April, 2016 Author Report Share Posted 25April, 2016 (edited) So after finally building a tube bender that works, I have been able to complete the bolt in half roll cage for my car. I am far from a gun welder, but overall I am pretty happy with the result. Edited 25April, 2016 by MFX Timm, Scott930, tomo and 9 others 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomo Posted 25April, 2016 Report Share Posted 25April, 2016 LeeM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81SC Posted 25April, 2016 Report Share Posted 25April, 2016 Well done Jeff. You exemplify the old car builders mantra, Built Not Bought... MFX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 25April, 2016 Author Report Share Posted 25April, 2016 TE911 and LeeM 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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