996 values coupe/cab manual/tip

[LeeM]

 Funny isn't it. If a car has stone chips, paint fading etc its a heap of shit to collectors and everyone else. If it's had a decent respray and presents nicely, it's not as attractive to collectors coz it might have had big damage etc.🙄

 Ya can't win with 'collectors', as they basically want a car that has left the factory and parked in a garage untouched for 30 years, yet I'm sure they'd have a sook about that too, as it "Needs to be driven..." but don't drive it more than 2 kms, as that kills its value...and they probably won't want to pay top dollar 🙄 

 Really, (no offence intended) but how many 'collectors' are going to want to collect a 996 cab? 

 The people who buy them want a nice all round car, and if I saw one that had just been painted (not that I'd buy a cab), I'd ask questions as to who did the work then contact them to see if theres anything you should know about prior damage etc. 

Price it accordingly and it will be attractive to 'non collectors' who just want a nice car

[Rajvosa]

Thanks guys for replies 

I have the photos that paint shop took for insurance assessor. Nothing to hide…there was no smash involved and like you said, happy to chat when/if time comes to sell. 
 

it’s done 135kms so not a collectable in any sense but a lovely car none the less  

next step is getting IMS etc etc booked in

[carl888]

19 minutes ago, LeeM said:

 Funny isn't it. If a car has stone chips, paint fading etc its a heap of shit to collectors and everyone else. If it's had a decent respray and presents nicely, it's not as attractive to collectors coz it might have had big damage etc.🙄

 Ya can't win with 'collectors', as they basically want a car that has left the factory and parked in a garage untouched for 30 years, yet I'm sure they'd have a sook about that too, as it "Needs to be driven..." but don't drive it more than 2 kms, as that kills its value...and they probably won't want to pay top dollar 🙄 

 Really, (no offence intended) but how many 'collectors' are going to want to collect a 996 cab? 

 The people who buy them want a nice all round car, and if I saw one that had just been painted (not that I'd buy a cab), I'd ask questions as to who did the work then contact them to see if theres anything you should know about prior damage etc. 

Price it accordingly and it will be attractive to 'non collectors' who just want a nice car

There's no such thing as a collectable 996 of any type  Most Porsches of any age are not collectable, there's just too many of them.

For me at least, paint chips are "fair use"

Faded paint is abuse, there's no excuse for faded paint, means the car is parked outside, or has 1,500,000 kms on it.  Maybe both.

I would call myself a collector of cars, but I do not own anything that is "collectable" as such. In Porsche terms, collectable for me would be a 908/03, 917/10, 3.0 RS, 911 R, SC-RS, that sort of thing.

If you are buying anything beyond cars like these for collection,  you are setting yourself up for a big disappointment at sale time.

Even a RS 2.7 I do not believe is collectable, there's always 25 or so for sale at any one time, too many of them.

19 minutes ago, LeeM said:

 

 Ya can't win with 'collectors', as they basically want a car that has left the factory and parked in a garage untouched for 30 years, yet I'm sure they'd have a sook about that too, as it "Needs to be driven..." but don't drive it more than 2 kms, as that kills its value...and they probably won't want to pay top dollar 🙄 

 Really, (no offence intended) but how many 'collectors' are going to want to collect a 996 cab? 

 That's how I like to buy my cars.  I'm in the automotive trade (Ferrari) and despite my best advice, my car collection is mainly financed by people who buy shit heaps thinking they're saving money.  But that's a different discussion.

I always advise my customers to buy the lowest mileage, Australian delivered, no stories, unfucked, properly maintained car you can find.  If your priorities are to save money, just buy an ETF, you'll be happier.

No collector would buy any 996, and especially not a cabriolet.  In my case, I wanted the lowest mileage, not silver or red, 3.6L manual cabriolet with seat heaters, original paint, maintained properly with under 40,000 kms.

 

[Sherpa]

18 minutes ago, carl888 said:

Most Porsches of any age are not collectable, there's just too many of them.

[Yeatesy]

39 minutes ago, carl888 said:

Even a RS 2.7 I do not believe is collectable, there's always 25 or so for sale at any one time, too many of them.

 

Where are these 25 RS 2.7's you speak of?

[James P]

40 minutes ago, carl888 said:

There's no such thing as a collectable 996 of any type  Most Porsches of any age are not collectable, there's just too many of them.

Wow!

[carl888]

19 minutes ago, Yeatesy said:

Where are these 25 RS 2.7's you speak of?

https://www.classic-trader.com/au/cars/listing/porsche/911/911-carrera-rs-2-7-touring/1973/207463

https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/porsche/911/1973/699588

https://www.classicmobilia.com/classic-car-sourcing/porsche-911-27-rs-touring/

https://www.motorsportauctions.com/category/339/Porsche/listings/42284/Porsche-911-Carrera-27-RS-(Touring).html

https://www.elferspot.com/en/car/porsche-911-carrera-rs-1973-538196/

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1375656

 

I stopped at the first page of Google

 

 

23 minutes ago, James P said:

Wow!

Not at all.  If we restrict ourselves to the 996, which of the significant Porsche collections worldwide house a 996?  I'll make it easy, a 996 GT-2?

Certainly easier if you go to something like a GT-1, but most of the others,  no.

And RHD RS 2.7 look cheap!

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1973-porsche-911-carrera-2-7-rs

[Sherpa]

Jokes aside, @carl888, as a collector you must see the writing on the wall for all marques and models, right? I mean nothing will be worth anything in a few decades. Most won't even be museum pieces, they'll just be scrap metal. Just entertain my rant for a second here...

My old man has always been into veteran cars, so pre-WW1 stuff. When I was a kid, 30-40 years ago, they were all worth something. People would spend a fortune restoring them. He sold one of his for over $100k in the late 90s. Lots of people would rally them or display them in collections etc. But they're all now over 100 years old. The skills to maintain them have all died, the parts have all been used up on restorations, driving them on the road has become increasingly difficult, people under 50 aren't interested in them and now even museums don't want them. The market is fucked.

In a world of electric cars, every ICE driven vehicle becomes worthless exactly as those veteran era cars did. So, in fact, the reality is no cars are collectable if you are only in it for the capital gains. Because at some point in the coming 2-3 decades the arse will fall out of the entire ICE market.

So, from a personal point of view, I think we can only hope and pray that some nutters in the garages of Europe and the US are busy making simple electric conversion kits for the marques and models we love. At least so we can have cars that don't all look like Tesla appliances, but old cars won't be worth anything. History has proven this.

/rant

[carl888]

Just now, Sherpa said:

Jokes aside, @carl888, as a collector you must see the writing on the wall for all marques and models, right? I mean nothing will be worth anything in a few decades. Most won't even be museum pieces, they'll just be scrap metal. Just entertain my rant for a second here...

My old man has always been into veteran cars, so pre-WW1 stuff. When I was a kid, 30-40 years ago, they were all worth something. People would spend a fortune restoring them. He sold one of his for over $100k in the late 90s. Lots of people would rally them or display them in collections etc. But they're all now over 100 years old. The skills to maintain them have all died, the parts have all been used up on restorations, driving them on the road has become increasingly difficult, people under 50 aren't interested in them and now even museums don't want them. The market is fucked.

In a world of electric cars, every ICE driven vehicle becomes worthless exactly as those veteran era cars did. So, in fact, the reality is no cars are collectable if you are only in it for the capital gains. Because at some point in the coming 2-3 decades the arse will fall out of the entire ICE market.

So, from a personal point of view, I think we can only hope and pray that some nutters in the garages of Europe and the US are busy making simple electric conversion kits for the marques and models we love. At least so we can have cars that don't all look like Tesla appliances, but old cars won't be worth anything. History has proven this.

/rant

OK, here's my theory.  We tend to lust after things we couldn't afford in our late teens and early 20s.  Your fathers example is spot on IMO.  None the less, some pre-war cars have appreciated alarmingly (And continue to do so) such as most genuine Bugattis and almost all W.O. Bentleys.  But they're the exception.

In my own situation, I bought some cars in the 1990s and 2000s that I just liked.  My purchasing decision with discretionary items such as cars is based upon that simple fact, whether I like them.  My financial investment is such that I have already kissed the money goodbye.  For me, that's the healthiest way to enjoy a car.  I've never bought a car thinking it could possibly make money or that I'll even get something for it.  If I sell, and I get something, to me that's a bonus and helps me enjoy my hobby.

My personal opinion is that the cars I own may be worth something like 10 to 20 cents in the dollar in 20 years time, that's my guess.  As for electric repowering of classics, that's already happening, and will be a huge market for those with the means to do so.  I see ICE cars becoming specialised, like vinyl or wet film.  Perhaps they'll appreciate, but I sincerely doubt it.

I think history will view the last few years very harshly.  You can see what's going on with Australian muscle cars over at Lloyds and it seems we've crossed the river with appreciation of the next generation GT-3 with a manual transmission..........

You're on the money IMO, one of the few not deluding yourself 

[James P]

19 minutes ago, carl888 said:

OK, here's my theory.  We tend to lust after things we couldn't afford in our late teens and early 20s.  Your fathers example is spot on IMO.  None the less, some pre-war cars have appreciated alarmingly (And continue to do so) such as most genuine Bugattis and almost all W.O. Bentleys.  But they're the exception.

In my own situation, I bought some cars in the 1990s and 2000s that I just liked.  My purchasing decision with discretionary items such as cars is based upon that simple fact, whether I like them.  My financial investment is such that I have already kissed the money goodbye.  For me, that's the healthiest way to enjoy a car.  I've never bought a car thinking it could possibly make money or that I'll even get something for it.  If I sell, and I get something, to me that's a bonus and helps me enjoy my hobby.

My personal opinion is that the cars I own may be worth something like 10 to 20 cents in the dollar in 20 years time, that's my guess.  As for electric repowering of classics, that's already happening, and will be a huge market for those with the means to do so.  I see ICE cars becoming specialised, like vinyl or wet film.  Perhaps they'll appreciate, but I sincerely doubt it.

I think history will view the last few years very harshly.  You can see what's going on with Australian muscle cars over at Lloyds and it seems we've crossed the river with appreciation of the next generation GT-3 with a manual transmission..........

You're on the money IMO, one of the few not deluding yourself 

I agree with this & a few collectors that i know are happy to sell at the moment as they know the market will not hold up for ever 

54 minutes ago, carl888 said:

Not at all.  If we restrict ourselves to the 996, which of the significant Porsche collections worldwide house a 996?  I'll make it easy, a 996 GT-2?

Certainly easier if you go to something like a GT-1, but most of the others,  no.

Still plenty of significant 996 models in collections around the world like RS, RSR, Cup, SuperCup & GT1 particularly ones with good race history 

[Sherpa]

20 minutes ago, carl888 said:

As for electric repowering of classics, that's already happening, and will be a huge market for those with the means to do so.  I see ICE cars becoming specialised, like vinyl or wet film.  Perhaps they'll appreciate, but I sincerely doubt it.

I think the only challenge for for ICE vehicles vs your vinyl or wet film analogy is that they are a simpler ecosystem to keep alive and viable. I also suspect that will be exclusively a rich-man's hobby. But I do sincerely hope the electrification of ICE cars will become cheaper and easier. I think that's only way the rest of us will get to keep playing with the toys we love.

20 minutes ago, carl888 said:

I think history will view the last few years very harshly.  You can see what's going on with Australian muscle cars over at Lloyds and it seems we've crossed the river with appreciation of the next generation GT-3 with a manual transmission..........

Yeah, I'm continually stunned at the prices of Aussie built classics. I get stuff that had global appeal going bonkers, but something that the addressable audience for is so so small, just makes no sense to me at all. But who knows anymore. There's a financial correction coming on so many fronts, the car market is just another piece of the puzzle!

[WOKA]

On 20/08/2021 at 19:53, Sherpa said:

Looks like it sold for $76k, did your bro win it @WOKA?

In other news, that tidy black targa also sold today too…

 

Late reply but he held out on me, but yes he secured the car..  Apparently PO was from Adelaide and the car had a white wrap..  Does that ring any bells with anyone as to its history.  But for all intents and purposes, he reckons its a good car.  Big price tag however, the new benchmark.! 

[tomo]

5 minutes ago, WOKA said:

Late reply but he held out on me, but yes he secured the car..  Apparently PO was from Adelaide and the car had a white wrap..  Does that ring any bells with anyone as to its history.  But for all intents and purposes, he reckons its a good car.  Big price tag however, the new benchmark.! 

Was that the high spec green 98 ? Am i to understand it had a white wrap , Or am I on the boat ?

[WOKA]

2 minutes ago, tomo said:

Was that the high spec green 98 ? Am i to understand it had a white wrap , Or am I on the boat ?

Correct.

 

As to you being on a boat - I can't answer that.  But have a great trip if you are and you don't know it.!

[LeeM]

14 minutes ago, tomo said:

Was that the high spec green 98 ? Am i to understand it had a white wrap , Or am I on the boat ?

 I drove that around 3 years ago. One of the best cars I've ever driven, then drove home in my air cooled and put it into a guard rail 😂

That 996 was the car that planted the seed in my head about owning a 996. Think it was $50-55k at the time, and although the wrap had been done well, I couldn't pull the trigger to trade mine because of the pearl white colour and I wasn't keen on the green underneath.

[tomo]

59 minutes ago, WOKA said:

Correct.

 

As to you being on a boat - I can't answer that.  But have a great trip if you are and you don't know it.!

Wish I was

[MFX]

4 hours ago, Sherpa said:

I think the only challenge for for ICE vehicles vs your vinyl or wet film analogy is that they are a simpler ecosystem to keep alive and viable. I also suspect that will be exclusively a rich-man's hobby. But I do sincerely hope the electrification of ICE cars will become cheaper and easier. I think that's only way the rest of us will get to keep playing with the toys we love.

Yeah, I'm continually stunned at the prices of Aussie built classics. I get stuff that had global appeal going bonkers, but something that the addressable audience for is so so small, just makes no sense to me at all. But who knows anymore. There's a financial correction coming on so many fronts, the car market is just another piece of the puzzle!

EV converting old cars is getting cheaper everyday, but I hope we don't have to any time soon. At least for our generation the sound, the vibration, the manual gearbox are all things that make up the experience. I have actually considered doing an EV conversion, but I ended up discarding the thought because you basically need to add at least 300kgs to a small light car to give it even a tiny bit of range, in effect ruining the essence of it. 

...but back to 996's, or to be honest any Porsches for that matter. They should all be driven. Hard. If they are wrapped up in cotton wool, then what is the point. Those people should maybe look at a Prancing Horse. Life is too short  

[PhilH]

5 hours ago, LeeM said:

 I drove that around 3 years ago. One of the best cars I've ever driven, then drove home in my air cooled and put it into a guard rail 😂

That 996 was the car that planted the seed in my head about owning a 996. Think it was $50-55k at the time, and although the wrap had been done well, I couldn't pull the trigger to trade mine because of the pearl white colour and I wasn't keen on the green underneath.

Obviously no one watered that seed Lee.  The small sprout of proposed 996 overnership withered in the heat of the air cooled SC

[LeeM]

27 minutes ago, PhilH said:

Obviously no one watered that seed Lee.  The small sprout of proposed 996 overnership withered in the heat of the air cooled SC

 Nah, noone else woulda watered that seed at all Phil. Except maybe some bloke with a wicked silver 996 🙄

[Sherpa]

On 26/08/2021 at 20:07, MFX said:

I have actually considered doing an EV conversion, but I ended up discarding the thought because you basically need to add at least 300kgs to a small light car to give it even a tiny bit of range

Wow, is that the net weight gain even after removing engine/gearbox weight and any wet weight? It does seem like a lot. I’d assume you’d end up with more torque though.

It’s something that’s always in the back of my mind. I feel like we’re in that place where if an engine detonates because of IMS/borescoring etc, you’d have to consider the EV route as a viable alternative to an engine replacement/rebuild for the longevity of the car.

[crsedge]

7 minutes ago, Sherpa said:

It’s something that’s always in the back of my mind. I feel like we’re in that place where if an engine detonates because of IMS/borescoring etc, you’d have to consider the EV route as a viable alternative to an engine replacement/rebuild for the longevity of the car.

I would be thinking an LS conversion, though that is clearly the polar opposite 😁

[JWM]

1 hour ago, Sherpa said:

Wow, is that the net weight gain even after removing engine/gearbox weight and any wet weight? It does seem like a lot. I’d assume you’d end up with more torque though.

It’s something that’s always in the back of my mind. I feel like we’re in that place where if an engine detonates because of IMS/borescoring etc, you’d have to consider the EV route as a viable alternative to an engine replacement/rebuild for the longevity of the car.

I had a cracked cylinder head last year and did ponder it while I was waiting to find out what exactly was wrong. 
 

The head was the limit for me of it being worth fixing. If it had been some of the scarier options - in particular cracked cylinder - where it was a new engine discussion, I very seriously would have thought about the EV conversion route instead…

That would go double if it were a car where I hadn’t done everything else recently (IMS, clutch, AOS, etc etc etc)…

[Dalai]

On 26/08/2021 at 20:07, MFX said:

At least for our generation the sound, the vibration, the manual gearbox are all things that make up the experience.

And smell. I will never convert my 84 Carrera to EV and do everything to keep it running as Porsche intended. Even if that means buying expensive Biofuels and driving it on the track when legislated off the road. Not ripping it's heart out!

[Jason E]

I'm with you @JWM.  I think Porsche intended them to be usable/ everyday sports cars.  If you're forced down the EV path then that's the path you tread (unless as stated you use it as a special event car).  Horses for courses.

[tomo]

I rekon 60 K would be about the starting price to go to some sort of EV conversion.