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Jkay

How Do You Enjoy Porsches on Public Roads in Australia?

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Honest question - not taking the mickey. 

I dont mean driving like a dangerous hoon either on public roads, but even just going through the gears normally in Australia can get you massive fines. 

Having lived in Asia, the UK (and also driving in Europe as a result) and The USA , I just feel that the Aus Police and cameras are the most extreme when it comes to speeding fines. 

Just spent 18 months out of Aus and have been getting around in a 987.2 Cayman. This thing comes alive above 5,000 rpm, and is glorious. If I took a cayman above 5,000 rpm (in anything other than first gear) in Aus Id lose my license, but I (and almost everyone else around me) drive at speeds way higher than in Aus and they havent died. People cruise at 130-150 all day every day here on the highways and I havent seen mass deaths as a result. In fact it flows really nicely. People cruise at 80-85 mph in the USA too without incident. Do that in Aus and I feel as if the SWAT Team is going to come out from behind a bush with fines and breath testing kits at the ready. 

I am soon due to return to Aus, and wondering if there is any way to enjoy another performance car apart from on a track. I'm not one to break the rules (so far only ever had one fine in Aus  in 2010 in Melbourne (speeding) and last speeding fine prior in 2004/5 in the UK), but it makes driving incredibly mundane when I cant accelerate out of corner without momentarily exceeding the speed limit, or cant overtake properly  without breaking the law by creeping above the limit momentarily (esp with the crazy 1-2 kmh tolerance in Victoria)

I believe its more about having a good driving attitude (not being aggressive, being aware of your surroundings etc) rather than just measuring everything by the speedometer. I'm no superstar racing driver by any means, but always do my best to be courteous to other road users and (touchwood) have only had one accident when I was 18 (and am now in my 40's)

I may no doubt get flamed by some, but am genuinely curious how people enjoy fast cars on public roads in Aus without doing track days all year round. 

If this thread is inappropriate I shall delete it

 

Thank you

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Get an old Porsche and find some good country B roads... the more bare bones (raw) they are, the better a road car it is! Drive a slow car fast they say... 

New stuff on the other hand... as you state, will get yourself a few trophies with the constabulary! 

I honestly don't find NSW police to be harsh if you're not being a dickhead, if I am being cheeky and happen to pass one, I acknowledge them, slow down and they usually don't even bother with you, sometimes I even get a wave. 

A lot of it comes down to finding the right driving roads and good company! 

 

 

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Jkay, it is pretty deadly here in Victoria, no doubt.   But nothing is going to change it for the better (for us I mean) In fact it will only get worse.

Speed zones are always being assessed and now the governments/Councils are using a decrease in speeds to save them repairing the roads.

You're right about cameras etc and our Highway Patrol take no prisoners.   We have even had the police hiding in bushes etc...just the way it is now.

Apart from the countries you have suggested where you might be able to put the foot into it a bit more, don't forget we have all sorts of wildlife wandering around now from Kangaroos, to deer and even wombats.   

We all go along with your thoughts above, but believing in those thoughts are not going to change the way it is on our toads.

Apart from what Carrera 28 has just suggested...

and that is probably the best and safest suggestion for you.

We as a forum, and also the Porsche Club of Victoria, do runs on Sunday mornings etc.  

Some other clubs also do mid week runs.

These runs are done outside Melbourne Metro and in our case on the forum here in Vic, we normally kick off at first light.

We try and avoid, push bikes, motor bikes and all other traffic that start to either clog the roads up or become a danger to us, and them.

Having said that, the roads we normally run on will push you and your car to the limits in most cases.  

Very twisty and the mandated speed limits in a lot of the cases is pretty well as fast as you can go.  (well me anyway)

Obviously there are also places where you can go a lot faster than the posted speed limit.....AND......

That becomes your decision as a driver, we don't recommend or suggest anyone break the speed limits or drive dangerously.

The forum and it's members have a good name and we will hopefully keep that reputation.

As I said, we are not the police and if you want to go faster that is up to you, remembering the penalties are harsh if caught.

25k over the posted speed limit is instant loss of licence and loss of car, with a heavy monetary penalty.

Our drives are reasonably  "exciting" in stages..

You would be very welcome to join in on any of our posted up drives (must be in a Porsche car is the stipulation though)

If you go out for a quick drive on your lonesome, you just have to be aware of everything I have mentioned here.

Unfortunately we just have to live with what we have got...

Hope that hasn't put you off...

Others may disagree a bit about my comments, so hopefully you will get some more advice or suggestions from other PFA members on here.

Cheers..

 

 

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Thanks for the kind responses (was expecting to get flamed for mentioning exceeding the speed limit), but it looks like everyone understands what I mean. 

I too totally want to keep the good name of the forum and its members, whether on a group drive or as an individual, and I feel we share the same sentiment when it comes to driving at moderate speeds but safely and respectfully. I am not some random hoon who wants to drive like an a r se. 

Thank you very much for the offer Niko and will definitely take you up on it if I am ever in a Porsche in Melbourne. If all goes well I'll be heading back to Sydney in a couple of months, and hopefully the wife and daughter still remember who I am :D. That and a mate has recently bought a 996 GT3 I cant wait to see after selling his 991.2 (which I think was too insulated for him)

Love Edgys suggestion on getting something older, ie slow car fast. My last Porsche in Sydney was a 997 Turbo, so I guess NOT the most bare bones Porsche around lol. 

Lets see what I can afford when I get back, prices seem to be a little steep at the moment compared to when I left in 2019. Wonder if this is  bubble. 

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Great question! 

It's very difficult to exercise these cars as intended in Aus, especially here in Vic (much worse than NSW in terms of the level of speed enforcement). This is the main reason why my daily is a 65 912, I drive it everywhere, flat out and don't feel I'm rolling the dice risking my licence - it's about the only way I can enjoy a car within posted speed limits. 

Anything else, as others have said, best to take to a track or do a closed road targa/tarmac rally event in a "touring" category. Really the only way to use the cars to their potential responsibly. 

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 I drive my '78 backdate everywhere at the speed limit, as the roads I take are usually twisty 2nd and 3rd gear turns and sign posted at 80kph,  where you'd be on the gas pretty hard and taking risks to go over that speed.

  I very rarely exceed the 100kph on the straight bits, as the cops are usually laying in wait, or theres also the hidden cameras disguised as a tree or a Wombat. I need my license for work.

 As much fun as it is, you don't have to drive flat out everywhere to enjoy driving a Porsche on the road

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The tarmac rally touring categories are great for exercising a standard road car.

https://www.australiantarmacrally.com/event-categories

In normal times there are 4 of these events in VIC.

There are also Targa events in VIC, QLD and TAS with touring categories 

plus others in Adelaide and WA

Normally lots to choose from.

 

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In Adelaide we are blessed with some very twisty roads within half an hour of almost anywhere in suburbia.

There are quite a few that are signposted at 80K with some of the corners recommended at 25K.

Perfect for one of the lesser powerful Porsches like my 986S.

The downside is the short sighting distance around the tight corners for unexpected surprises.

Lee, love to catch up for a cruise some time if you wheel it out of the shed.

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22 minutes ago, hugh said:

Great question! 

my daily is a 65 912, I drive it everywhere, flat out and don't feel I'm rolling the dice risking my licence - it's about the only way I can enjoy a car within posted speed limits. 

 

 

Cheers Hugh :)

6 minutes ago, LeeM said:

 As much fun as it is, you don't have to drive flat out everywhere to enjoy driving a Porsche on the road

Agreed, I'm just always worried about momentarily straying 5kmh over the limit and getting points. 

 

4 minutes ago, Redracn said:

The tarmac rally touring categories are great for exercising a standard road car.

https://www.australiantarmacrally.com/event-categories

 

 

This actually looks awesome and something Id love to try. As mentioned I am just your average Joe and no racing driver, and would love to give it a go, and never knew about these events prior. Thanks

 

3 minutes ago, Rob H said:

In Adelaide we are blessed with some very twisty roads within half an hour of almost anywhere in suburbia.

Only even driven through Adelaide once on the way back from Marree (Near Lake Eyre) but would love to go back for another visit properly next time. I remember there being lots of roundabouts lol

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9 minutes ago, Rob H said:

 

Lee, love to catch up for a cruise some time if you wheel it out of the shed.

 No worries Rob. Been  while mate, so I'll rally the usual clowns soon 👍 

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When you come back, come to Tassie 🙂

Great roads, lots of twisties that will test you at lower speeds, a somewhat relaxed police presence as long as you don't go stupid in full view on the main roads.  Ask why all these mainland clowns come over here for a week of driving our country and back roads 🙂 

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2 minutes ago, TwoHeadsTas said:

When you come back, come to Tassie 🙂

Great roads, lots of twisties that will test you at lower speeds, a somewhat relaxed police presence as long as you don't go stupid in full view on the main roads.  Ask why all these mainland clowns come over here for a week of driving our country and back roads 🙂 

Theres enough clowns in Tassie with out the mainlanders.:)

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To the OP: I feel your pain. Victoria is horrible, almost hostile, for a car enthusiast. I'm looking to move, but right now cannot due to extended family. If you have to come to Vic, I suggest you consider an older air cooled car, or alternatively something like an E36/E46 M3, these are still fun to drive on the roads at 80-100km/h.

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1 hour ago, Redracn said:

The tarmac rally touring categories are great for exercising a standard road car.

https://www.australiantarmacrally.com/event-categories

In normal times there are 4 of these events in VIC.

There are also Targa events in VIC, QLD and TAS with touring categories 

plus others in Adelaide and WA

Normally lots to choose from.

 

Ok this has given me some hope, thank you for the link!

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56 minutes ago, TwoHeadsTas said:

When you come back, come to Tassie 🙂

Great roads, lots of twisties that will test you at lower speeds, a somewhat relaxed police presence as long as you don't go stupid in full view on the main roads.  Ask why all these mainland clowns come over here for a week of driving our country and back roads 🙂 

Sound Like a plan !

53 minutes ago, tomo said:

Theres enough clowns in Tassie with out the mainlanders.:)

If this is the case, I shall blend in really well then :D 

43 minutes ago, njb said:

To the OP: I feel your pain. Victoria is horrible, almost hostile, for a car enthusiast. I'm looking to move, but right now cannot due to extended family. If you have to come to Vic, I suggest you consider an older air cooled car, or alternatively something like an E36/E46 M3, these are still fun to drive on the roads at 80-100km/h.

Hostile is the word! I feel there are many people there who genuinely believe that the moment you exceed the posted speed limit by a couple of K's, you will cause maximum carnage and people start dying all around.

I love the E46, my favourite 3 Series...owned a couple (318 and 330Ci 10 years apart) but never the M3

39 minutes ago, Jason A said:

I read this and am now on the verge of depression 

I nearly forgot how much I enjoyed driving until came overseas for work. Driving safely within limits, but also getting to feel the car much more......ie getting to feel the brakes properly before coming to a corner, that initial turn in, how the car changes direction, mid corner balance, grip, modulating the throttle to control over/understeer..and accelerating out nicely and smoothly to just below red line before shifting up a cog...ALL while keeping my eyes on the ROAD and everything AROUND me, and NOT fixated on the speedometer. 

 

Great bunch on here, hope to meet some of you when I am back and eventually get into another Porsche as I sold the 997 Turbo before I left

When in Aus I drive STRICTLY to the posted limit for fear of getting penalised (hence not a single speeding fine since 2010) , so I sadly rarely got to experience much of the above

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1 hour ago, Jason A said:

I read this and am now on the verge of depression 

Same, Victoria used to be the place to be!

I second the tarmac rally thing, lots of fun and very relax and welcoming crowd.

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1 hour ago, KGB said:

^What he said.

lost for words - unbelievable

 

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39 minutes ago, cafe_racer said:

I second the tarmac rally thing, lots of fun and very relax and welcoming crowd.

It's THE best. 

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I don't....anymore.  We shut our tours for (partially) this very reason.  Between more unpredictable traffic (bikes, hikers, tour buses, downhill skateboard things) and police...it just got too hard.  We did 5 -10 drives a week for 4 years and got lucky wrt fines.  Since I stopped, I've not missed road driving at all ...but am doing more on track & very much enjoying that, acknowledging it's more costly on a 'pay as you go' basis but less chance of critical incidents.  Perhaps there will come a point where I enjoy road driving again but I'm not there yet & have some fairly good roads in my backyard.  I'm starting to be attracted to the 'slow car fast' idea on the road...maybe dip back into the beetles?

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I've got some small advantage having once been a copper and done the job - I have a reasonable idea of where and what type of 'speed trap' will work and importantly what legislative restraints exist for where and how it can be set up (yep, even cops have rules to follow).  FWIW, coppers don't look after speed cameras in Vic and NSW, and I think most other jurisdictions have had to move away from them as coppers loath the role.

As much as I love a good drive with friends... For a spirited drive, I drive alone - too many cars creates 'racing' and that makes for an aggravating element if you're pinged at unsociable speed and have to front a beak (ie "Hooning" and potential vehicle forfeiture).  Also some blokes are just a PIA to drive with as they have no self control or drive obnoxiously - everyone notices and public complaints make traffic files for plod to follow up.

I choose early morning weekdays, I don't tell anyone, I certainly don't put it on social media, and I drive like a lamb on urban and peri-urban roads short shifting gears.  The "safest" roads to enjoy will be no surprise to you - they are twisty mountain range type roads.  These roads make pulling up and setting up a lidar (radar) difficult for safety, angle and range reasons for the traffic cop - even when riding a solo.  Only traffic specific cars will be mounted with mobile radar units and unless they pass almost parallel a good reading is difficult, and windy roads means oblique approach angles - this means you'll read a little lower.  It doesn't mean you can't be unlucky though, hence "early weekday mornings far from town".

One more thing - dashcams are ubiquitous!  Every bloody caravaner, truck, and most government vehicles have them.  So think just a little about how you round up a line of traffic, or fail to notice the double lines.  My tip is to be courteous even when behaving badly ;) - wave when someone lets you through, a quick acknowledging beep of the horn when a truck slows a touch to give you more overtaking room, and don't pull risky or blind moves.  The idea is not to give a dashcamer reason to upload video of you to Facebook or to the cops...

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21 minutes ago, Fishcop said:

I've got some small advantage having once been a copper and done the job - I have a reasonable idea of where and what type of 'speed trap' will work and importantly what legislative restraints exist for where and how it can be set up (yep, even cops have rules to follow).  FWIW, coppers don't look after speed cameras in Vic and NSW, and I think most other jurisdictions have had to move away from them as coppers loath the role.

As much as I love a good drive with friends... For a spirited drive, I drive alone - too many cars creates 'racing' and that makes for an aggravating element if you're pinged at unsociable speed and have to front a beak (ie "Hooning" and potential vehicle forfeiture).  Also some blokes are just a PIA to drive with as they have no self control or drive obnoxiously - everyone notices and public complaints make traffic files for plod to follow up.

I choose early morning weekdays, I don't tell anyone, I certainly don't put it on social media, and I drive like a lamb on urban and peri-urban roads short shifting gears.  The "safest" roads to enjoy will be no surprise to you - they are twisty mountain range type roads.  These roads make pulling up and setting up a lidar (radar) difficult for safety, angle and range reasons for the traffic cop - even when riding a solo.  Only traffic specific cars will be mounted with mobile radar units and unless they pass almost parallel a good reading is difficult, and windy roads means oblique approach angles - his means you'll read a little lower.  It doesn't mean you can't be unlucky though, hence "early weekday mornings far from town".

One more thing - dashcams are ubiquitous!  Every bloody caravaner, truck, and most government vehicles have them.  So think just a little about how you round up a line of traffic, or fail to notice the double lines.  My tip is to be courteous even when behaving badly ;) - wave when someone lets you through, a quick acknowledging beep of the horn when a truck slows a touch to give you more overtaking room, and don't pull risky or blind moves.  The idea is not to give a dashcamer reason to upload video of you to Facebook or to the cops...

Ah I once worked in the same job, a number of years ago now in the UK. I once finished my shift and was on my way home on empty roads at around 0130am, and was kind of going a little above the limit (ok 35-40 mph over) and noticed a vehicle coming from behind at speed, closing in on me, and it turned out to be an unmarked Armed response vehicle which tailed me, Claxtons (flashing lights) off. 

I recognised the vehicle and pulled over and they just stopped next to me and casually asked asked if I was in a bit of a hurry, said I'd just finished work, and they just laughed and drove off. No They didnt drive off coz I was a copper at the time or because we knew each other (never seen them before but coincidentally saw them the very next day at a call to a stabbing ), but were more concerned with looking for burglars as there were quite a few "hook and cane" burglaries in the area at the time where high powered vehicles were being stolen with keys and werent interested in people speeding on empty roads.  Had I been a "person of interest", I am sure they would have done a more thorough stop. 

I can say 95% of my colleagues at the time shared the same attitude, ie nobody really cared about issuing speeding tickets unless the drivers were being complete fools, or if they were well known troublemakers. Hence,  I've always wondered what the general Australian copper was like, outside of the HWP. I went on a few attachments with Traffic, and they were interested in pursuits, getting drug dealers off the road etc, and also not overly motivated by speeding fines. 

Anyway I digress, and great point about twisty mountain range type roads. Living in Sydney (not far from Porsche Centre Sydney South, the closest place I can think of is the Royal National Park, unless anyone knows better :)

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