Whats for sale (in Australia ) and interesting Thread

[JLD]

The ‘Sonny Bono’ car is for sale again…!

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1974-porsche-911-carrera-manual/SSE-AD-7286821

Just now, MFX said:

Kms really shouldn't factor into a car that is over 40 years old. Condition is king. Kms by that point are basically irrelevant IMO.

I guess. Just another factor for me in the price of a car. Like for like, you’d take the car with half the ks if everything else was exactly the same

[MFX]

1 minute ago, JLD said:

The ‘Sonny Bono’ car is for sale again…!

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1974-porsche-911-carrera-manual/SSE-AD-7286821

I guess. Just another factor for me in the price of a car. Like for like, you’d take the car with half the ks if everything else was exactly the same

If it was EXACLY the same, maybe, but there are always going to be differences. For me it would be, how fresh is the engine, leakdown, gearbox, any bodywork, interior condition, bushings and road feel, and kms would be very last on the list. 

[Mttel]

Not sure about this one, on Facebook market place is $44k.

could be an interesting toy.

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/adelaide-cbd/cars-vans-utes/porsche-cayman-s-turbo-conversion/1276743686?utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=ios_VIP&utm_medium=social&utm_source=com.apple.uikit.activity.copytopasteboard

 

[LeeM]

5 minutes ago, Mttel said:

could be an interesting toy 

 Or a hand grenade waiting to expel shards of molten metal

[Bondiscwb]

On 23/06/2021 at 17:59, luzzo said:

Gorgeous car. Love it.

Price is fair, although it is a NZ import and also Non 003 (Clubsport).

 

I've not followed the GT2 market but would this sort of car become very desirable/collectible in a few years? I'd love to have this car.

[1q2w3e4r]

They made circa 1200 996 GT2s (same for the 997 though the 997 also has the RS).

Yes, should be collectable in future, great cars - overlooked in my view when you considered prices of 996/7 GT3s and GT3RS which were all made in significantly higher numbers (apart from the 996 3 RS). 

[Schnell]

On 16/06/2021 at 18:03, Bugs77 said:

And if it was still $125k it might sell this time, but no, just keep cranking up the price. I get trying to achieve top dollar but if you were happy asking $125k just under 12 months ago why not take advantage of the current hype and take the $125k today, it would go with probably a minimum of fuss. I made an offer on an SC the other week and by the time I'd checked on a few things and got back to the seller the asking price had gone up another $21k, which made it about $36k over what it was realistically worth. Didn't get that one.

I think we may have looked at the same car. A reasonably nice UK SC was originally offered$74k, he wanted to retrim the seats (pasha) and that would bring the total to $77k, checked in a few weeks later he wanted $90k and then a month on I let him know I as still interested and now asking $120k.

[Schnell]

Has anyone seen this car? It's been up for some time, it is Aus delivered but non-original engine and sportomatic obviously hurt the price. But given the current prices, still comes in nicely for an Aus delivered car. 

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/east-albury/cars-vans-utes/porsche-911-1974-2-7l-sportomatic-targa-australian-delivered/1258240686

[SpinningAround]

3 hours ago, 1q2w3e4r said:

They made circa 1200 996 GT2s (same for the 997 though the 997 also has the RS).

Yes, should be collectable in future, great cars - overlooked in my view when you considered prices of 996/7 GT3s and GT3RS which were all made in significantly higher numbers (apart from the 996 3 RS). 

Totally agree - I reckon the 996 and 997 GT2s are a bit overlooked given their rarity and performance, although they are not exactly cheap.  

The 997 GT2 is just an awesome car - the first production 911 that was 200 mph capable,  manual only, and that last-of-the-era, heavily breathed-on Mezger turbo motor.  It even has an insane manual gearbox launch control system and those 325 rears really fill the arches.

They made relatively few overall, and even fewer RHDs - probably 100 - 200 RHD 997s, with only 50-odd RHD Clubsport spec, allegedly.

I’ve watched a half dozen public 997 GT2 sales over the last 12 - 18 months - a couple through Duttons, one via Scuderia Graziana, maybe a couple of private sales.  The sweet spot at the moment in Aus looks to be be somewhere around 300k, depending on what the actual sale price was.  Well spec’d, well priced ones get snapped up fast.  There’s several private ones at 350k+ that have sat around for over 18 months now on CS, including a 2009 GT2 which is the transitional model with 997.2 PCM.

I got really close to buying one - but I’ve never come across a colour / interior combo that I really loved.  And I’d have to track it and then I’d probably miss a shift and grenade the motor.

[oneflewnorth]

She’s back

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1969-porsche-911-t-manual/SSE-AD-7298265

[saileshpm]

8 hours ago, oneflewnorth said:

She’s back

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1969-porsche-911-t-manual/SSE-AD-7298265

What’s the story with this car, I assume it went on CS previously? 
 

Love how it looks! 

[LeeM]

2 hours ago, saileshpm said:

What’s the story with this car, I assume it went on CS previously? 
 

Love how it looks! 

 Previously owned by 2 members here

 And yes, it's just about perfect

[9er]

9 hours ago, saileshpm said:

What’s the story with this car, I assume it went on CS previously? 
 

Love how it looks! 

Heaps of information online of the car with John (Fishcop) build threads on Typ901 and Early S Registry forums

[hugh]

9 hours ago, saileshpm said:

What’s the story with this car, I assume it went on CS previously? 
 

Love how it looks! 

@Fishcop thread from Typ901; 

https://www.typ901.org/forum/forum/typ901-register-forums/general-technical-info/2739-fishcop-s-911t-restoration-2010

I was then a custodian until 2019;

It then went to NSW to the current seller (FYI who is a fellow Porsche nut and really nice guy). Be great to see it stay in the "fold". 

[blue_ixxi]

1 hour ago, hugh said:

@Fishcop thread from Typ901; 

https://www.typ901.org/forum/forum/typ901-register-forums/general-technical-info/2739-fishcop-s-911t-restoration-2010

I was then a custodian until 2019;

It then went to NSW to the current seller (FYI who is a fellow Porsche nut and really nice guy). Be great to see it stay in the "fold". 

Looks lovely, but isn't $240K a bit $$$ for non matching numbers, sporto convert even in this market?

[Fishcop]

10 hours ago, saileshpm said:

What’s the story with this car, I assume it went on CS previously? 
 

Love how it looks! 

Wow.  Amazing to see where newer owners have taken this car - just beautiful.  This was the car that defined my 30's, I drove it all around Queensland from the Gold Coast, a move to Townsville, back to Toowoomba, and then Brisbane.  I'm pleased to see it morph to suit its custodians and continue to give driving pleasure.  FWIW it started an unloved and confused bitsa my wife allowed me to buy to encourage me off motorcycles - it worked

[hugh]

3 minutes ago, blue_ixxi said:

Looks lovely, but isn't $240K a bit $$$ for non matching numbers, sporto convert even in this market?

Who knows? Hard to find and build an early 901 to this standard for much less though, sign of the times I guess. 

[Fishcop]

4 minutes ago, blue_ixxi said:

Looks lovely, but isn't $240K a bit $$$ for non matching numbers, sporto convert even in this market?

That's a great question that only the market will answer (and most of us will never learn the answer )

Is it fair to suggest that the early 911s are moving into a different space than merely trading as the sum of their VIN?  By that I mean owners are beginning to create automotive expressions that could be considered 'art' - I know that sounds wanky, but there are vehicles out in the market now that are genuinely bespoke (another wanky term) but people want uniqueness beyond what Porsche (and other marques) originally intended.  Prices of some vehicles are starting to reflect the expression - whether there are buyers for it or not I don't know.  But Singer and other builders are going okay  

[blue_ixxi]

8 minutes ago, Fishcop said:

That's a great question that only the market will answer (and most of us will never learn the answer )

Is it fair to suggest that the early 911s are moving into a different space than merely trading as the sum of their VIN?  By that I mean owners are beginning to create automotive expressions that could be considered 'art' - I know that sounds wanky, but there are vehicles out in the market now that are genuinely bespoke (another wanky term) but people want uniqueness beyond what Porsche (and other marques) originally intended.  Prices of some vehicles are starting to reflect the expression - whether there are buyers for it or not I don't know.  But Singer and other I'll xk builders are going okay  

Yeah, I am all for this movement of owners expressing themselves through their cars, but personally prefer the car to be non convert, matching numbers as a foundation of the car. I believe even Singers are always matching numbers even though they can easily justify the price without being one.

[Fishcop]

6 minutes ago, blue_ixxi said:

Yeah, I am all for this movement of owners expressing themselves through their cars, but personally prefer the car to be non convert, matching numbers as a foundation of the car. I believe even Singers are always matching numbers even though they can easily justify the price without being one.

For sure.  But sometimes the matching combination makes it impossible to build what you're after.  Singer is maybe a bad example - there is nothing left of the original car and engine other than the stamps   It's a bloody brave owner who takes a matching number A/C 911 and turns it into a hot rod these days.  And you certainly don't put it on the net for all the 'experts' to smash you  

I believe the original mag 2.0 from this car is still around - whether it would increase the perceived value of this car I don't know.  I do wish the current and next owner all the best with any sale.

[Coastr]

Matching numbers makes sense for elevating value of an original, unhacked car vs one with an engine swap.  Particularly a MFI to CIS or similar.  But it shouldn’t drive the whole conversation, particularly when it comes to modified cars.  A non-matching singer va matching should have no bearing on the value conversation, as stated nothing is left original except the chassis and engine case. 
 

if a car has departed from original it should be valued on the quality of execution and choices.  It’s harder to value than an original car because it becomes ‘1 of 1’ but saying it is worth less because it doesn’t have the original engine loses relevancy because it’s not original in many respects, so what difference does a different case matter?  
Modified cars are valued only by what people are prepared to pay, not by how far they have strayed from the build sheet or how much the person has spent.  The right mods in the right style can make a car worth more than the equivalent standard car (singer).  Or make it worth parts value only (Klassy variants). Up to the market to decide.

[hugh]

I wouldn’t expect anyone looking at a car like this is that focussed on matching no. etc. 

A valuation would be based on the condition, the sum of its parts and the extent/quality of the work that has been completed. 

This is more of an enthusiast type car, not really one for the concourse collector. Both tend to value things differently. 

[LeeM]

43 minutes ago, Fishcop said:

 It's a bloody brave owner who takes a matching number A/C 911 and turns it into a hot rod these days. 

 True, though I know one backdate sold recently for very similar money to a nice stock one, so it does depend on the individual buyer with what they want in a 911. 

 I had a discussion very recently with someone trying to buy my '78 backdate. They can't justify spending $100-150k on a stock Oz delivered 911 SC or whatever, as they just don't float his boat style wise (me either), yet he'd be happy to pay that kinda money for a nice backdate. There's also those who despise modified cars (a.k.a backdates) and wouldn't even look at one thats for sale. 

 We only have to look at the sale prices of what Singer, Kaege and the like are getting, to know people will pay an exuberant amount of money for exactly what they want, and if I was cashed up enough to be able to afford your old car as it is now, I'd buy it in a heartbeat

[blue_ixxi]

13 minutes ago, hugh said:

I wouldn’t expect anyone looking at a car like this is that focussed on matching no. etc. 

A valuation would be based on the condition, the sum of its parts and the extent/quality of the work that has been completed. 

This is more of an enthusiast type car, not really one for the concourse collector. Both tend to value things differently. 

I don't think it is either/ or IMHO. There is a category of buyer in between collector & enthusiast who can value both originality of some aspects of the car and be enthusiastic about others. For example, someone can be particular about the car being matching numbers (chassis, engine, gearbox), original RHD, factory color, and still enjoy high level of customization of suspension, exhausts, gear shifters, wheels, interiors etc. How much do each of these factors weigh in on the final price is tough to say, but some do affect the price of the car more than others (historically at least, in this market tough to predict what the market will decide)

[9er]

9 minutes ago, blue_ixxi said:

I don't think it is either/ or IMHO. There is a category of buyer in between collector & enthusiast who can value both originality of some aspects of the car and be enthusiastic about others. For example, someone can be particular about the car being matching numbers (chassis, engine, gearbox), original RHD, factory color, and still enjoy high level of customization of suspension, exhausts, gear shifters, wheels, interiors etc. How much do each of these factors weigh in on the final price is tough to say, but some do affect the price of the car more than others (historically at least, in this market tough to predict what the market will decide)

The small number of Australian delivered early cars vs >74 cars means very few change hands, not an easy market to get a take on.