944 sale price

[Fishcop]

20 hours ago, Foolsbry said:

Hey everybody, newbie here!

Does anyone know what's up with the crazy pricing on 944s recently? I know you should expect them to sort of go up in price over time, but recently there's been people listing all types, even standard non-turbo non-s models for crazy prices, 50-75k. You reckon it's just a case of one person lists one at a silly price, then the next person comes along and says "Oh that's what they're selling for, better put mine for the same price". Is anyone actually paying these prices?

A few months ago I was looking at an 86 944 and it was only 25k. Wishing I had the money back then to buy it. Now there are not many available, few cheapies here and there but mostly autos or they need work.

Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on these prices. I've got the cash to buy one now, just gotta wait for this bubble to burst I think!

 

EDIT - What do everyone think of around 30k for a non-turbo 944, earlier model? Fair or too much?

Lots of knowledge amongst this crowd for you.  Three points to my post:

1. I owned a lovely 944S2 for a bit over 6 months I bought from a member here and then sold to another member here.  The advice I received using this forum was excellent and I ended up with a car that had been loved, with "nothing to touch" - this made ownership less expensive and much more enjoyable.  Having bought/sold 3 cars with the aid of this forum, my experience tells me it's much better than dealing with CarSales et al... If you're patient, there are a few members here that are likely prepared to part with their cars off market if you're prepared to meet the market

2. The market is crazy.  I bought and sold my 944 for the same-ish money 10 months ago.  The market has since really kicked a gear with people either buying or holding nice cars and I suspect what was a $35k 944 is now a $45k+ 944.  But every other Porsche has jumped the same sort of percentage, so it's all relative.  Is there bubble?  Definitely with new and late model second-hand cars - and they'll 'correct' rather than plunge over the next 24 months.  And 'classic cars' will correct even less.  So just jump in for the best car you can afford - concentrate on professional mechanical attention, the body and interior are much more easily improved with basic skills at home.

3. I'll upset some here, but the basic 944 is underwhelming.  They are a love letter to the 1980's but unless you chase a 944S2 or Turbo, your mum's Hyundai goes harder.  The car must have air conditioning and power steering if you do any urban driving.  The 944 is a beautiful car and worth every cent, but If you're after a "Porsche" and want some handling and performance at the $35k mark, try and grab a Boxster.

[Jason E]

14 minutes ago, Fishcop said:

Lots of knowledge amongst this crowd for you.  Three points to my post:

1. I owned a lovely 944S2 for a bit over 6 months I bought from a member here and then sold to another member here.  The advice I received using this forum was excellent and I ended up with a car that had been loved, with "nothing to touch" - this made ownership less expensive and much more enjoyable.  Having bought/sold 3 cars with the aid of this forum, my experience tells me it's much better than dealing with CarSales et al... If you're patient, there are a few members here that are likely prepared to part with their cars off market if you're prepared to meet the market

2. The market is crazy.  I bought and sold my 944 for the same-ish money 10 months ago.  The market has since really kicked a gear with people either buying or holding nice cars and I suspect what was a $35k 944 is now a $45k+ 944.  But every other Porsche has jumped the same sort of percentage, so it's all relative.  Is there bubble?  Definitely with new and late model second-hand cars - and they'll 'correct' rather than plunge over the next 24 months.  And 'classic cars' will correct even less.  So just jump in for the best car you can afford - concentrate on professional mechanical attention, the body and interior are much more easily improved with basic skills at home.

3. I'll upset some here, but the basic 944 is underwhelming.  They are a love letter to the 1980's but unless you chase a 944S2 or Turbo, your mum's Hyundai goes harder.  The car must have air conditioning and power steering if you do any urban driving.  The 944 is a beautiful car and worth every cent, but If you're after a "Porsche" and want some handling and performance at the $35k mark, try and grab a Boxster.

There are some importants points here @Foolsbry.

Always buy the best one you can afford with recent, professional mechanical history.  Buying a loved car for more dollars is better than a neglected one that you need to "refresh/rebuild' (unless you're doing the work yourself).

The Fish is right when he says they are "underwhelming" compared to a modern car.  They are however lots of fun if you understand that you can drive the slow car fast.  It'll feel fast as you wring it's neck, rowing through the gears & then you'll look down & see that you're only doing 80kph & a pensioner on a mobility scooter passes you with a middle finger Metamucil salute.  I drove a manual 2008 2.0 litre MX5 yesterday & was amazed at the difference in power between it & any of the Porsches.  My S2 had far more "punch" but a similar feel.

You will have fun in the 944 (not an auto), just not speed, but they are all about handling & the corners.  As Fishy states if you're looking for an 80's classic you won't go wrong. 

Don't discount a Boxster if 2 seats are all you need (& the auto will be far, far better if an auto is what you're chasing). 

[Port 911]

17 hours ago, Jason E said:

Don't get an auto 944(especially a square dash model) unless you want the car strictly for commuting (you'd be better off with a Boxster if that's the case)  They're terrible.  I drove 2 of the 3 speed boxes.   Truly terrible. 

Point to add, if the auto goes bung - that it, for the auto because you can not get parts for them..

They maybe considered underwhelming, but in the corners they can upset guys with what they think are performance two door cars.

Point - one well tuned V8 VE Monaro up a long set of 35k corners could only get away on straight sections. In talks before the return trip they were most unhappy to find out it was not a Turbo 944 but an N/A version.   

[Jason E]

36 minutes ago, Port 911 said:

Point to add, if the auto goes bung - that it, for the auto because you can not get parts for them..

They maybe considered underwhelming, but in the corners they can upset guys with what they think are performance two door cars.

Point - one well tuned V8 VE Monaro up a long set of 35k corners could only get away on straight sections. In talks before the return trip they were most unhappy to find out it was not a Turbo 944 but an N/A version.   

if the auto goes bung - thats it for the auto because you can not get parts for them. - That's a pretty good point.  I remember Buchanan's saying the same thing.

they maybe considered underwhelming, but in the corners they can upset guys with what they think are performance two door cars.-

I went on a Porsche drive day once with a group of blokes I didn't really know.  I had my old 944S2.  I pulled up next to a bloke in a 997 and when I got out he said, "You don't see old clunkers like that around much anymore.  Will you be able to keep up?".  At the end of the day he came over & said that he was blown away by how the car kept up with the 'real Porsches'.  I just smiled & said, "It's mostly the driver mate & I ain't much of a driver".  

[Peter M]

5 minutes ago, Jason E said:

  I pulled up next to a bloke in a 997 and when I got out he said, "You don't see old clunkers like that around much anymore.  Will you be able to keep up?".  .  

Never ceases to amaze me how far 911 owner's can disappear up their own arses.

[Fishcop]

2 minutes ago, Peter M said:

Never ceases to amaze me how far 911 owner's can disappear up their own arses.

First time I turned up in my old 911T (proud as punch that I had a 911) to a Porsche Club track event, the then president said to me "We'll have to think about whether we continue to let these old shitboxes come to these events - they get in the way of the fast cars"...  I thought really hard about whether I'd ever come back to a club event ever again.

[LeeM]

20 minutes ago, Fishcop said:

First time I turned up in my old 911T (proud as punch that I had a 911) to a Porsche Club track event, the then president said to me "We'll have to think about whether we continue to let these old shitboxes come to these events - they get in the way of the fast cars"...  I thought really hard about whether I'd ever come back to a club event ever again.

 Obviously been beaten by too many old shitboxes 🙄

[Foolsbry]

Everyone here is awesome, thanks so much for all your input, I really appreciate. I'll start of by saying I'm 30 years old and have only ever owned one car, a 1990 Nissan Navara, which is a great reliable car, but handles like a slug and goes about as fast as one; so I'm sure jumping in the seat of a 944 will be a whole new world for me even if they are regarded as slow. I'm really not the hooning type anyway, I just want a nice looking vintage car to bumble around in to and from work etc. I would never buy an auto at any rate, just not my thing, prefer manuals.

One that I was looking at, which I was hoping to get for around the 30k mark was a 1982 model, so first year of production. I'm sure it would be lacking a lot of bells and whistles that the newer ones have of course. When it comes to air conditioning, well I love summer and I love the heat, have never driven a car which has air con anyway so that's a luxury I'm not terribly sad to miss if it isn't there!

@brian in buddina I'm in Salisbury, south of Brisbane

@SteveF Thanks so much for that link! That one doesn't come up when I search for some reason. Nice looking model!

Again, thanks everyone for your thoughts!

[Fishcop]

10 minutes ago, Foolsbry said:

One that I was looking at, which I was hoping to get for around the 30k mark was a 1982 model, so first year of production. I'm sure it would be lacking a lot of bells and whistles that the newer ones have of course. When it comes to air conditioning, well I love summer and I love the heat, have never driven a car which has air con anyway so that's a luxury I'm not terribly sad to miss if it isn't there!

An '82 probably doesn't have power steer and possibly won't have A/C.  Power steering is nice (particularly slow driving and maneuvering), but I can't over emphasise that an acre of rear horizontal rear glass in QLD will heat the cabin like a bastard! 

The Garnet Red car SteveF has put you on to looks really nice and the burgundy interior makes a nice change from the usual black.  Good luck with your hunt.

[Jason E]

2 minutes ago, Fishcop said:

 I can't over emphasise that an acre of rear horizontal rear glass in QLD will heat the cabin like a bastard! 

agreed, they don't call them greenhouses for nothing.  Wait & get a good one.  I did have mine professionally tinted with good clear heat retarding 3M film which made a big difference.

[brian in buddina]

Just had a look at Car Sales.  My apology to any PFA members that have 944s listed on CarSales. The prices seem a little over the top for some of the listed cars. Not sure how long these cars take to sell. Later model S2 & Turbos you would think are a premium, but some of the early cars and high listed kilometres are very ambitious asking prices.  But what do I know???

A few weeks ago a red 1988 Turbo was listed for sale on fb. It was a US import Left Hand drive. The last advert that I saw listed the asking price at $25,000. It was purchased by a Brisbanite. The car looked in pretty good shape from the photos. Deals will come up.

A cabrio that sold recently:

I’ve seen this car and it was in top shape. I believe the owner was looking for somewhere in the mid to high $30s. Not sure what it sold for but this is, what I believe to be a realistic asking price compared to some Car Sales asking prices.

[Foolsbry]

Thanks Fishcop, I'm in no great hurry so will be waiting for the right one to pop up. Glad you agree the Garnet Red one looks like a good buy! My next main issue is actually being able to go interstate to look at/buy one!

Jumping on Car Sales definitely bums me out, some of the asking prices are just crazy in my opinion. I actually recall seeing possibly that same left hand drive red Turbo also on Car Sales and it was around 40k-50k when it was on there! Funny to hear it sold for probably around the 25k mark. My thinking is that they are more than welcome to list their cars at those prices, but the market will decide whether they are actually worth that. Just because they're listed at those prices doesn't mean they will sell, that's for sure. That Carbriolet is a great looking car, hope the new owner is happy!

[LeeM]

1 hour ago, Foolsbry said:

Just because they're listed at those prices doesn't mean they will sell, that's for sure. 

 That's across the board with anything mate.

 You could probably knock 10 grand off a listed price and see how you go, as it happens all the time when sellers finally realise that reality far outweighs their optimism and they need to sell. 

 Good luck with the search, yet be a little patient, and arm yourself with information from those who know these cars well 

[Dreamr]

4 hours ago, Foolsbry said:

Thanks Fishcop, I'm in no great hurry so will be waiting for the right one to pop up. Glad you agree the Garnet Red one looks like a good buy! My next main issue is actually being able to go interstate to look at/buy one!

Plenty of us have bought "sight unseen" from interstate. 

Yes, it's a scary thought but there are plenty of guys that can eyeball on your behalf, and video calls and phones to verify with mechanics, etc.

Coincidently, we bought my son's '82 model from Perth sight unseen, and had it shipped to NSW. Granted, it was fully restored and has a invoice file as thick as an old Yellow Pages, but as with any purchase .. buy the owner as much as the car. If they are not knowledgeable or passionate about it, move on.

[69Model]

To answer the original question, $30k seems about right to me for a good early car.

https://www.shannons.com.au/auctions/2021-shannons-spring-timed-online-auction/M04Z58E08788F5GB/

This one sold at Shannons recently for $40k plus buyers premium.  For me that's the top of the n/a market.  The ones advertised on carsales around $70k I dont think will sell.  That is turbo money.

I have an '84 which I bought off this forum.  Has dealer fitted a/c which is next to useless. No power steering which doesn't worry my and I probably prefer it without.  Handles great, gets heaps of admirers every time I take it out (which is very often) and hasn't let me down in 4 years/20,000kms.  Wait for a good one and you will love it.  Good luck with the search.

[Dan Lemon]

Hi Foolsbry, 

I'm also a newbie. The 944 is awesome! Always such an event driving, even if it's 'just' to the supermarket and back. 

I purchased my 944 (1985.1 square dash) last year, prior to the covid silliness setting in. Based on my experience owning/ looking after the car, I'd say $30-35k now for an N/A is not unreasonable money if the paint is in good condition + the mechanicals are healthy with a good service history. 

I bought my car based on its mechanical health (cylinder compression and leak down was really good) and its service history, but the paint is very much looking its 36+ years. Although I don't have the best car contacts,  I would still say paint is generally pretty expensive ($15k+ for a full body respray?). I'm also led to believe that it's very difficult to blend paint on cars this age, hence a full respray seems to be the preferred way forward. 

I fully agree that the $40k+ prices being advertised seem ambitious. To add to this I would say that since paint and mechanicals can be quite expensive, buying a car that has both these things already present in good condition is worth it value wise. I think it would be difficult to buy a sub $25k car with poor condition paint + trim and not end up spending over the $30-35k realistic value doing all the work to make the car work/ look less ratty.

I think one of the problems that covid is sort of revealing with older cars is that because of their age, it just costs more to look after them, and a lot of people out there now are taking advantage of the times to try recuperating some of this spending. I feel like sometimes the increase in the cost of old cars is also related to the amount that it costs to own them, not just their desirability/ rarity. 

 

[Port 911]

So can anyone tell me why almost all of the 944s for sale are the series one cars and you do not see many series two cars (oval dash) come up for sale. 

[69Model]

I think its as simple as most 944's sold in Aus were series 1. There are just more of them around than oval dash cars.  Somebody here probably has the actual numbers imported.  Oval dash cars were late 80's which coincided with "the recession we had to have".  Similarly there are a lot more early - mid 80's 911's out there than late 80's.

[Fishcop]

2 hours ago, 69Model said:

I think its as simple as most 944's sold in Aus were series 1. There are just more of them around than oval dash cars.  Somebody here probably has the actual numbers imported.  Oval dash cars were late 80's which coincided with "the recession we had to have".  Similarly there are a lot more early - mid 80's 911's out there than late 80's.

I'd probably concur with 69Model's  thoughts Rickie.  Remembering by the time they got to the 944S2 in 89 less than 50 units were sold in Australasia.  They even stretched the 86 944 Turbo delivery out to 1988 (there were no Australian complianced 944 turbos in 1987) so sales were overall slim.  And at the risk of offending some, the oval dash was a much more appealing interior and people have gravitated to them.  Oh - and then we had 944 Cup racing which probably contributed to the loss of quite a few road cars...

[Port 911]

On 07/10/2021 at 09:16, 69Model said:

I think its as simple as most 944's sold in Aus were series 1. There are just more of them around than oval dash cars.  Somebody here probably has the actual numbers imported.  Oval dash cars were late 80's which coincided with "the recession we had to have".  Similarly there are a lot more early - mid 80's 911's out there than late 80's.

I have current registered numbers, and just managed to get a rough breakdown of the series 1 series 2 breakdown

944 2.5Lt N/A 1982 - 1988 Man/Auto - 209 still registered in OZ (Around 150 series 1 & Around 50 of those are series 2)

944 Turbo 1986-1991 Man with the M44.50 engine - 51 still registered in OZ

944 Turbo 1986-1991 Man with the M44.52 engine - 41 still registered in OZ

944 S 1987-1989 Man - 28 still registered in OZ

944 2.7Lt 1988-1989 Man/Auto - 40 still registered in OZ 

944 S2 1989-1991 Coupe - 88 still registered in OZ

944 S2 1989-1991 Convertible - 6 still registered in OZ  

And there you have the answer

 

[Caterm]

Includes club reg ?

[Port 911]

2 hours ago, Caterm said:

Includes club reg ?

If its Registered in Australia, then Yes.

[911B]

22 hours ago, Port 911 said:

I have current registered numbers, and just managed to get a rough breakdown of the series 1 series 2 breakdown

944 2.5Lt N/A 1982 - 1988 Man/Auto - 209 still registered in OZ (Around 150 series 1 & Around 50 of those are series 2)

944 Turbo 1986-1991 Man with the M44.50 engine - 51 still registered in OZ

944 Turbo 1986-1991 Man with the M44.52 engine - 41 still registered in OZ

944 S 1987-1989 Man - 28 still registered in OZ

944 2.7Lt 188-1989 Man/Auto - 40 still registered in OZ 

944 S2 1989-1991 Coupe - 88 still registered in OZ

944 S2 1989-1991 Convertible - 6 still registered in OZ  

And there you have the answer

 

Fantastic info mate, can I ask where I could find similar stats for 928 cars? This my 88 s4.

[Port 911]

2 hours ago, 911B said:

Fantastic info mate, can I ask where I could find similar stats for 928 cars? This my 88 s4.

It is something a friend can get as part of his work, not something he can do very often, he got the above as a favour.

[911B]

1 hour ago, Port 911 said:

It is something a friend can get as part of his work, not something he can do very often, he got the above as a favour.

ok i understand. interesting stuff though.