991 GT3 Market watch

[NBTBRV8]

1 minute ago, sleazius said:

I'm not knocking it on a track. It is boring on the road (for me). It is just so capable that you might as well leave it in auto. You also feel zero danger at any point, no matter how fast you go unless you start turning stuff off. It leaves you with the feeling that you don't need to respect the car because it will cover your mistakes.

I'm not knocking anyone else for choosing PDK, but for me, if it was my weekend car, little or no track time, I'd be disappointed with the PDK car having driven them both.

I have to agree, PDK takes out so much skill for the vast majority of drivers and it makes most look like hero's.  On a track when pushing for the 10th 10th I'd take PDK everytime.  Having daily driven my .1 GT3 for a year and 20,000kms I got to learn what it is brilliant at and what its weaknesses are.  There is no doubt in my mind that the manual gives you better car control and feedback at anything less than 10 10ths which for the vast majority of owners is all they are looking for.  It seems to me that people seem to conflate speed with car engagement which is what I think most would agree, are two different things.  There is a video floating around where Randy Prost did back to back comparisons in a manual and PDK GT3 and if I recall correctly around Willow Springs there was about half a second in it, it was much closer than anyone was expecting, even him.

We shouldn't turn this well aged debate in to forum warfare, we should though all be thankful that Porsche is the ONLY manufacturer to reintroduce the manual giving us a choice based on what we want out of the car and the driving experience.   For that, we must be ever grateful.

[wilson59]

43 minutes ago, NBTBRV8 said:

 

We shouldn't turn this well aged debate in to forum warfare, we should though all be thankful that Porsche is the ONLY manufacturer to reintroduce the manual giving us a choice based on what we want out of the car and the driving experience.   For that, we must be ever grateful.

Agreed . It's all about choice and what you want  out of a particular car . I would have been more than happy with a manual car as well . 

Lets be honest it's like arguing over your hot girlfriends hair colour  . Pretty lucky to have either 

[spiller]

This is obviously a very personal topic. Different strokes for different folks. I became disinterested with the 991.1 GT3 after 90 minutes on track at PECATL. No question it allows you to better focus on your driving lines and braking points allowing you to come up to speed earlier, but then what? Unless you’re door to door racing with it there isn’t enough engagement there for me. For the road it’s a no brainer, manual every time.

[Stephen Tinker]

The big question to me is regarding PDK as being "better on track" - so many people play lip service to racetrack dynamics when in reality the dedicated track junkies represent 0.1% of the buying public.

Hands up who feels comfortable about tracking a $250k - $350k car @ 10/10ths (or even 9/10ths) around Philip Island ??

[NBTBRV8]

5 minutes ago, Stephen Tinker said:

The big question to me is regarding PDK as being "better on track" - so many people play lip service to racetrack dynamics when in reality the dedicated track junkies represent 0.1% of the buying public.

Hands up who feels comfortable about tracking a $250k - $350k car @ 10/10ths (or even 9/10ths) around Philip Island ??

You're right, but we are talking about emotions here and how the car makes you feel. I mean, who rationally buys a GT3?

[wilson59]

9 minutes ago, Stephen Tinker said:

The big question to me is regarding PDK as being "better on track" - so many people play lip service to racetrack dynamics when in reality the dedicated track junkies represent 0.1% of the buying public.

Hands up who feels comfortable about tracking a $250k - $350k car @ 10/10ths (or even 9/10ths) around Philip Island ??

You could bring that argument to CS over touring even going as far as saying what is the point of a GT3 for the road .  If pure logic was your reason for purchasing very few GT3 cars would be sold . 

 

[hugh]

1 hour ago, sleazius said:

feel zero danger at any point, no matter how fast you go unless you start turning stuff off. It leaves you with the feeling that you don't need to respect the car because it will cover your mistakes.

Yeh, but you can belt around one handed with a coffee in the other? A boiling hot coffee with no lid if you are wanting to up the fear factor. 

[luzzo]

1 hour ago, sleazius said:

You also feel zero danger at any point, no matter how fast you go unless you start turning stuff off.

Totally agree with this. 

It encourages you, almost eggs you on to push harder. It's a bit like that coach on the sidelines in your ear... "C'mon, you can do better than that". 

3 hours ago, DJM said:

Buy something much slower than a GT3 that you can flog up a windy road with a huge grin and without fear of death or jail.

Thanks DJ, this is almost perfect. 

I have referred it to management, and it's a goer... just have to check that it meets the option requirements: I can see the sunroof, but not sure about heated seats? 

[Peter 996]

I'd prefer to be pushing my car around a track at 10/10ths than doing 5/10ths on the street!!!

[Stephen Tinker]

6 minutes ago, Peter 996 said:

I'd prefer to be pushing my car around a track at 10/10ths than doing 5/10ths on the street!!!

Yes, probably all on here would agree with you, but if your 991 GT3 was worth $300k plus, in reality would you be driving at 10/10ths ?? There would always be that little voice in your ear saying "if I bin this, its going to hurt big time". 

And its not just the initial $$ cost of an off track scrape or a kiss of the armco - if you have a substantial repair, that stigma will follow the car, as there will always be someone, somewhere with a photo of your car in its distressed position "on track". That could be a big hit when you want to upgrade and sell the car.

I've just re-read this - perhaps I'm just a soft cock....

[NBTBRV8]

2 minutes ago, Stephen Tinker said:

Yes, probably all on here would agree with you, but if your 991 GT3 was worth $300k plus, in reality would you be driving at 10/10ths ?? There would always be that little voice in your ear saying "if I bin this, its going to hurt big time". 

And its not just the initial $$ cost of an off track scrape or a kiss of the armco - if you have a substantial repair, that stigma will follow the car, as there will always be someone, somewhere with a photo of your car in its distressed position "on track". That could be a big hit when you want to upgrade and sell the car.

I've just re-read this - perhaps I'm just a soft cock....

I for one agree with you.

[Stephen Tinker]

Which one - tracking expensive GT3's or me being a softy.. 😃  😇

[NBTBRV8]

9 minutes ago, Stephen Tinker said:

Which one - tracking expensive GT3's or me being a softy.. 😃  😇

Tracking.

[RwGreeny]

Honestly I think if anyone is buying a modern performance car as a ‘fun weekend car’ you’re going to be a little disappointed. In my experience I’ve learnt that the way forwards is to actually looks backwards. I had a 991.2 gt3rs I’ve still got a 991.1 gt3. Neither of them have any meaning in the real world. Going out for a Sunday drive in one with a group of friends is like bringing a gun to knife fight. You spend the day rolling around behind them. While they are actually getting the enjoyment of driving in cars with less performance and ultimately a hell of a lot more fun. If you were to pass them and have a crack at getting towards the cars limit. You’re doing insane speeds and risks are not worth dying over.

Lighter and less power is where the fun is. 993RS and 996GT3 I think is the absolute limit of how fast you would ever want a road car. My days of buying modern GT3’s, McLaren's and Ferrari’s is well and truly over. 
They have become a bit pointless

[Stephen Tinker]

^^^^  you are right  ^^^^

And current motor cycles are even more so. Even 10 years ago, a GXSR or R1 was insane - you really, really had better know what you were doing. And driving any post 998 Ducati around at "normal" road speeds was a pain both physically and mentally. 

Heaven knows what a 2020 road going superbike is like off the track 😮

[luzzo]

4 hours ago, DJM said:

Buy something much slower than a GT3 that you can flog up a windy road with a huge grin and without fear of death or jail.

14 minutes ago, RwGreeny said:

Lighter and less power is where the fun is. 993RS and 996GT3 I think is the absolute limit of how fast you would ever want a road car. My days of buying modern GT3’s, McLaren's and Ferrari’s is well and truly over. 
They have become a bit pointless

This seems to be the common underlying message from those who have had real life experience in these cars. Really appreciate you guys sharing. Will save me a lot of explaining to Mrs Luzzo, after i've used the post Covid holiday kitty just to pay the stamp duty buying one of these modern rocket ships, only to then want to put the thing back up for sale!

[wilson59]

3 minutes ago, Stephen Tinker said:

^^^^  you are right  ^^^^

And current motor cycles are even more so. Even 10 years ago, a GXSR or R1 was insane - you really, really had better know what you were doing. And driving any post 998 Ducati around at "normal" road speeds was a pain both physically and mentally. 

Heaven knows what a 2020 modern superbike is like off the track 😮

My last race bike was a Ducati V4 Panigale was even frightening on the track . It was unbelievable  that mere mortals were actually able to purchase such a thing thank god for modern day electronics which are incredible . 

[LeeM]

 I just wish I had a GT3 😫😫

[sleazius]

5 hours ago, hugh said:

Yeh, but you can belt around one handed with a coffee in the other? A boiling hot coffee with no lid if you are wanting to up the fear factor. 

Don't drink coffee so its not a consideration 

[hugh]

6 minutes ago, sleazius said:

Don't drink coffee so its not a consideration 

That makes 2 of us! We can substitute for a hot chocolate instead..................

[NBTBRV8]

1 minute ago, hugh said:

That makes 2 of us! We can substitute for a hot chocolate instead..................

Yes but a rule for all my cars is that there is no eating or drinking.  So a weekend cafe will do with a much of like minded car nuts.

[DJM]

7 hours ago, luzzo said:

This seems to be the common underlying message from those who have had real life experience in these cars. Really appreciate you guys sharing. Will save me a lot of explaining to Mrs Luzzo, after i've used the post Covid holiday kitty just to pay the stamp duty buying one of these modern rocket ships, only to then want to put the thing back up for sale!

I sold one of these because it got little use and annoyed me seeing it sit there.....🤔
 

 

[NBTBRV8]

For what it's worth, I found the (brief) comparison about the manual vs PDK at the end of the comparison with the AMG GT-R

https://youtu.be/vZBrokdeZDk

 

[JLD]

Sometimes it’s not the fastest lap time, but getting to the track that can be the most enjoyable. To me PDK is a video game experience, manual is more engaging and fun

[luzzo]

4 hours ago, NBTBRV8 said:

For what it's worth, I found the (brief) comparison about the manual vs PDK at the end of the comparison with the AMG GT-R

https://youtu.be/vZBrokdeZDk

 

That was a good watch. Surprised at the final GT3 lap times PDK vs Manual.